All Member Open Forum

Our plant manager wants to hire an outside contractor to come in and assist with spare parts and PM development at our greenfield site. They are looking for the PM program to be completely built out and we are still in commissioning for most of our equipment. Is this normal? My expectation was that we would have time to get our longer frequency PMs (annual, three-year, etc.) built out since they encompass activities that do not need to be done on the equipment for some time. 

Does anyone have any suggestions on companies they have worked for that provided good service? I have not had good experiences getting contractors familiarized with a facility and a PM strategy. I tend to get a repeat of an O&M manual and a very large listing of "critical" spare parts.

Does anyone think it is a bad idea to hire outside support? I realize this question is quite subjective and depends on internal resources/skill sets and also project deadlines. I believe we have the resources to get this done, but we need more time. Any advice on selling the idea that having a fully fleshed out PM program is not critical during commissioning? Or am I wrong about that?

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Brian Sinclair
Sanford NC
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I can feel your pain if I were you and felt you had the resources. If he insists on a third party, would he be open to the possibility of you guys making the initial program draft (Asset criticality determination / failure mode analysis / PM's & PdM's / spares / training needs / etc) and then the third party review it then provide any needed training for some of the advanced tasks you guys will be doing? If he saw your work product on a few of the assets you could knock out in the short run was well thought out, hopefully he'd trust you to develop the long term ones post commissioning. Hopefully he'd gain an appreciation of your thought process of how you could start with an initial point of tech manual recommendations and then apply context specific judgment to make a determination of what you'd omit and/or add to those recommendations (especially if your past experience is in same type of facility).

I know this isn't helpful, but I've had many times when I thought to myself, 'then maybe you guys should have consultants run this department'. I'm all for consultants in general when there's a real need - they're a huge help then and I'm sure same for you - but not when it's solely due to a trust band-aid, so I hope that is not the situation you're in.

But to your last point, the one thing I can think of in knowing early what the longer frequency maintenance / spares is - do you still have opportunities for design for reliability / maintainability or standardization? Is your storeroom(s) sized yet and is it known whether its suitable for what you need? Or he could want to know the long term mtce requirements for cost forecasting, maybe he's got marching orders to quantify this asap. Otherwise, I think this could be done post commissioning, but the risk is if commissioning and initial run is rough, a year could slip by fast and something can get missed or a critical component presumed to last a long time experiences crib death in first year.

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Cyrus Brown
Mahi Pono LLC
Kahului HI
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Hello Brian,

I am someone who has always been quite "territorial" about such matters and it is quite normal to want to take full charge of the equipment life cycle instead of outsiders advising you when to take a smoke. But may I suggest that you let your manager do their thing while you focus entirely on proper commissioning.

Assuming that your Plant Manager has been due diligent enough to bind this external PM consultant to deliver full peer experience and interlace such experience with the PM schedule, bear in mind that the next year or two is the phase when the new plant shows its true colors and you are likely to notice failure modes that the external PM consultant never accounted for. At that time, your role would be to institute amendments and revisions to the PM prescribed by the external consultant so that it matches your operational context and stakeholder demands. Let me put it this way - in the end, you'll be the one having the last laugh.

Good luck!


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MATHEWS VADAKKAKARA
Bedford, Western Australia
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-01-2022 09:54 PM
From: Cyrus Brown
Subject: Outside support to build PM/spare parts management

I can feel your pain if I were you and felt you had the resources. If he insists on a third party, would he be open to the possibility of you guys making the initial program draft (Asset criticality determination / failure mode analysis / PM's & PdM's / spares / training needs / etc) and then the third party review it then provide any needed training for some of the advanced tasks you guys will be doing? If he saw your work product on a few of the assets you could knock out in the short run was well thought out, hopefully he'd trust you to develop the long term ones post commissioning. Hopefully he'd gain an appreciation of your thought process of how you could start with an initial point of tech manual recommendations and then apply context specific judgment to make a determination of what you'd omit and/or add to those recommendations (especially if your past experience is in same type of facility).

I know this isn't helpful, but I've had many times when I thought to myself, 'then maybe you guys should have consultants run this department'. I'm all for consultants in general when there's a real need - they're a huge help then and I'm sure same for you - but not when it's solely due to a trust band-aid, so I hope that is not the situation you're in.

But to your last point, the one thing I can think of in knowing early what the longer frequency maintenance / spares is - do you still have opportunities for design for reliability / maintainability or standardization? Is your storeroom(s) sized yet and is it known whether its suitable for what you need? Or he could want to know the long term mtce requirements for cost forecasting, maybe he's got marching orders to quantify this asap. Otherwise, I think this could be done post commissioning, but the risk is if commissioning and initial run is rough, a year could slip by fast and something can get missed or a critical component presumed to last a long time experiences crib death in first year.

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Cyrus Brown
Mahi Pono LLC
Kahului HI
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Brian,

There are quite a few consulting companies that can provide maintenance and reliability services in building out PM's and spare part recommendations. I can give you some names but won't call them out here. You can put out an RFP with your requirements and evaluate what you get back.
 In my experience if you're already commissioning and don't have an initial PM plan you're behind.  In DOD and other industries, RCM's and Maintenance Task and Spares Analysis would have begun back in the design stage so you could make Design For Reliability recommendations. Your PM plan (Maintenance Strategy) is a living program and should change as the plant operates and the maintenance and operations team learn. 

If you are staffed to get the PM plan and spare parts analysis completed while commissioning and starting operation you are staffed better than most and as stated previously your behind.
In regards to the repeat of the O&M manual, for the first year of operation you may be required to adhere to the O&M manual in order to maintain warranty. 
A preliminary PM program is necessary during commissioning, because typically as soon as you sign for it you own it.  Your maintenance & operations team needs to be trained on the Operator Care and PM.

Cyrus Brown makes great points on the spares analysis, you also need to consider long lead time items. As we all know something is going to fail and it will require weeks to get a replacement.

Full disclosure – I am one of those dreaded consultants.
You can contact me and I'd be happy to discuss Asset Lifecycle Management and some of the better M&R providers I've worked with.

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Hank Kocevar,CMRP
Consultant
Guardian Technical Services
hkocevar@guardiantech.org
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Brian,

Infralogix is one of the companies that Hank could have in mind. We do the kind of equipment building and optimization  you mentioned. Check us out and contact me if you would like to explore a possible partnership. Thanks!

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Mike Barkle, CMRP, CRL
Sr. Reliability Engineer
Infralogix
Williamsburg, VA.
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-02-2022 07:51 AM
From: Henry Kocevar
Subject: Outside support to build PM/spare parts management

Brian,

There are quite a few consulting companies that can provide maintenance and reliability services in building out PM's and spare part recommendations. I can give you some names but won't call them out here. You can put out an RFP with your requirements and evaluate what you get back.
 In my experience if you're already commissioning and don't have an initial PM plan you're behind.  In DOD and other industries, RCM's and Maintenance Task and Spares Analysis would have begun back in the design stage so you could make Design For Reliability recommendations. Your PM plan (Maintenance Strategy) is a living program and should change as the plant operates and the maintenance and operations team learn. 

If you are staffed to get the PM plan and spare parts analysis completed while commissioning and starting operation you are staffed better than most and as stated previously your behind.
In regards to the repeat of the O&M manual, for the first year of operation you may be required to adhere to the O&M manual in order to maintain warranty.
A preliminary PM program is necessary during commissioning, because typically as soon as you sign for it you own it.  Your maintenance & operations team needs to be trained on the Operator Care and PM.

Cyrus Brown makes great points on the spares analysis, you also need to consider long lead time items. As we all know something is going to fail and it will require weeks to get a replacement.

Full disclosure – I am one of those dreaded consultants.
You can contact me and I'd be happy to discuss Asset Lifecycle Management and some of the better M&R providers I've worked with.

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Hank Kocevar,CMRP
Consultant
Guardian Technical Services
hkocevar@guardiantech.org
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I was involved in commissioning and now ongoing PM, PdM, building lubrication routes, ultrasound lubrication, vibration analysis and oil sampling. If I could go back and change anything, it would be to have all criticality builds done which can then decide your PM tasks, routes, frequency, oil specs and quantities and most likely what technologies will be required.

Depending on the experience of the person who fills the role of PM/PdM may be a great mechanic, but may be unfamiliar about the intricacies of proper lubrication, thermography, vibes etc. They will need that information that presents a roadmap for success.

As far as ultrasound greasing goes, I have personally found that the application is only as good as the steady state of your plant. If there are many process swings, it will lend to a very unsteady lubrication process, as the individual will possibly grease as they interpret the noise under different operating conditions. None the less, I appreciate having the knowledge of using the UE to assist in some critical high speed applications.

Good idea on the 100hp or less sealed bearings. Just confirm that the mfr does no install grease zirks on the motor leading to sealed bearings, so that the lubrication tech is not forcing grease into the cavity of the motor.

Mike Cockcroft
PdM Tech.

Our company JFC & Associates can handle this.  If you need help feel free to contact me.  My info is below.  www.JFC-associates.com

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Michael Guns, Jr., CRL, CEFP, CMRP
Senior Maximo/EAM Consultant
JFC & Assoicates
www.jfc-assoicates.com
mguns@jfc-associates.com Cell: 302.358.9381
www.linkedin.com/in/michael-guns-jr-1b691882
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Brian,

The project engineer and your planner should be fleshing out the PMs and spare parts as inputs to the CMMS. If these people are not overloaded with other work, they need to own it.

When I’ve seen the techs could use training to perform maintenance on equipment they are not very familiar with or if the equipment has created large losses due to failures, I have brought in a third party to asses the equipment or to direct our techs in doing annual or less frequent PMs as a way to train our techs and make any job plan improvements.

There are a whole lot of consultants who would be glad to provide PMs and spare parts lists, but to your credit, it will be hard to write the contract with them to protect against getting something right out of your equipment manuals.

Amy Villameriel, CMRP

Brian,

Maybe the best plan is to take the help of getting PMs and spares now while your plant is commissioning and request an additional Planner for editing PMs and spare inventory as you get your PdM readings in pre-production validation and production. Mathews makes good points. The plant manager would have compared the costs and benefits of hiring another planner verses hiring consultants. It might just be a case of timing. In this market, it might be much quicker to hire consultants than an experienced planner.

Amy

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Amanda Villameriel BSME, MBA, CMRP
Reliability Engineer
Mt Zion IL
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A comprehensive review by a third party/outside company at this point in the plant's startup and commissioning, is, in my opinion, an invaluable tool that will pay dividends many times over.

Unless you happen to have personnel who are trained in the many disciplines utilized to optimize machine reliability, you will not leverage the experience of third party partners who may have a more global experience with a variety of plants and industries.

A a lubrication focused professional, I believe now is the time to develop a plan to manage the lubrication program. It must first and foremost take into account any OEM recommendations, while consolidating lubricants (where feasible and appropriate)  select critical assets, implement an oil analysis program and appropriate contamination control hardware with the goal of maximizing lubricant life as well as operating more efficiently and safely. A holistic approach encompassing a study of each specific asset provides a pathway to optimizing maintenance practices from the onset of commissioning for the entire plant, .

Depending on the mix of equipment and industry, a verbatim repeat of OEM manuals without considering the aggregation of them all as a part of the whole results in far too many lubricants and maintenance practices that could be confusing and disjointed.

This is an opportunity to start more efficiently and have a single source of reference which would help the team move forward in best practices and efficient operation.


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David Piangerelli
President
Lubrication Technologies, Inc.
West Springfield MA
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-03-2022 03:32 PM
From: Amanda Villameriel
Subject: Outside support to build PM/spare parts management

Brian,

Maybe the best plan is to take the help of getting PMs and spares now while your plant is commissioning and request an additional Planner for editing PMs and spare inventory as you get your PdM readings in pre-production validation and production. Mathews makes good points. The plant manager would have compared the costs and benefits of hiring another planner verses hiring consultants. It might just be a case of timing. In this market, it might be much quicker to hire consultants than an experienced planner.

Amy

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Amanda Villameriel BSME, MBA, CMRP
Reliability Engineer
Mt Zion IL
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Good Morning, Brian - 
I have been working as a contractor doing this exact type of work.  I help companies onboard new equipment, develop maintenance strategies, enroll new spare parts.  It takes a lot of collaboration with the Process Engineers and project management folks.  I currently work through DPS and am supporting Resilience in Boston, MA at the moment.  
I could provide some insight on what I would recommend for this position, if you're interested.  I've been doing this exact type of work for the last 3 years.  I'd be more than happy to have a casual discussion regarding this position and workload.  Contact me if you're interested!  I'd love to help if I can.  

Whitney
wcapwell@gmail.com

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Whitney Vieira
Sr. Reliability Engineer
Raleigh NC
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Brian,

I am presently leading the PM strategy for a greenfield site.  We began commissioning about a month ago.  We began ordering parts about a year ago. At start of commissioning, we had about 80% of our parts in house for that area.  The majority of our parts were in the system and ordered through the mrp process.  Only extremely long lead time parts were ordered outside of mrp. We are now in our third wave of parts ordering and in pretty good shape from that perspective.  We are in the process of implemented the entire plant on hour-based (frequency) inspections and condition based where applicable. While parts are a challenge on the front end the PM system is equally important.  My advice is to get your lubrication standards and plans in place first.  Then work on the details around objective driven inspections.  It takes more time but will ultimately pay huge dividends down the road.  I have had some less than spectacular results from contractors delivering PMs.  My advice to you is if that is the direction you are going to go, manage them closely.  If not, you will end up with a lot of money spent with little ROI. If you are lucky enough to land a contractor that does deliver your needs keep their name. They are priceless!

Johnie Weaver
Brandon, MS

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johnie weaver
Maintenance Systems Manager
Pearl MS
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I wanted to thank everyone who responded. Your advice was much appreciated and helped me approach this issue in a more constructive manner. We'll be going over  asset criticality with the consultant first both because of importance and also because I want to see how they approach maintenance strategy. After that, we're going to have them create a PM strategy for a custom built asset that we do not have a manual for. We will also be creating a PM in the background. We'd like to see if they identify possible failure modes that we have missed.

As for the hiring choice, that was apparently decided by the time we had an initial talk with the consultant. There was no bidding for this work. I will keep all of you in mind who responded on future jobs where I have a say on hiring.

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Brian Sinclair
Sanford NC
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