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  • 1.  Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 06-27-2024 08:00 AM

    I help oversee around 20 small chemical manufacturing facilities over NA.  I have been getting a strong push from multiple of our facilities to roll out a wireless vibration program.  Seems as of late I could throw a rock and hit a company that wants to sell us their wireless vibration program.  Is their a guide that sets minimum expectations for a wireless vibration program? (Battery, frequency of data sampling, frequency of actual signal, etc)  I want to compare apples to apples of each of the vendors and honestly feel overwhelmed.  

    Also looking for general guidance that aligns to equipment criticality or even size of equipment assuming centrifugal pump applications.  I guess I am more old school in that I like the monthly rounds as it encourages human interaction to see and listen to their equipment.

    Looking for a guide, or even someone that could help me build a guide to have a "lens" to look through when evaluating the programs people are trying to sell.



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    Steven Pittman
    Sr. Principal Maintenance and Reliability Engineer
    Arkema Inc
    Houston TX
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  • 2.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 06-28-2024 08:20 AM

    Well, I just had some of our vibration team in to quote me on a system for a couple of critical components in our plant.  They were professional and knowledgeable.  I work for SKF so I'm slightly biased.  One thing to keep in mind is that vibration analysis works best with componets that run at a set RPM, for most accurate monitoring.  There needs to be a basline established.  However,  I have had a lot of contact with other plants using SKF equipment, and there are a lot of great success stories. SKF just introduced the Axios system that is wireless to a hub that is networked.  You can access the sensors from a smartphone. For proper analysis you would need a vibration analysis certified person to interpret the data. However, several of our plants have found using WIFI to be fault prone on the factory floor.  SKF also has wired systems that use a central hub and use POE. One of the great features with SKF is that they offer remote monitoring of these systems for a monthly fee.  They have a team of vibration experts that monitor your vibration data and can warn you of impending failures. Mo one knows more about bearing failure and vibration than SKF. I know this is not an answer for your question.  But I hope it can help you to go in the right direction.  If you would like to contact SKF about this DM me directly and I can put you in touch with our people.



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    Gerald Sapp
    Reliability Engineer
    SKF USA Inc.
    West Valley City UT
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 06-28-2024 11:17 AM

    Thank you for the post Steven.  

    On-line monitoring has lots of advantages.  However, there are 100s of vendors to choose from.  I would consider those whose technology covers all the failure modes of the intended fleet.  For vibration this means you need high FMAX (5khz) and narrow frequency resolution in the spectrum (lines of resolution).  Battery life, ease of installation, mechanical footprint are other considerations for the sensors.  

    On the software side, your team that does the rounds will expect the software for the wireless sensors gives them similar displays and analytical exploratory displays.  Also, alerts, templates, and so on are important aspects of the software.  Lastly, you will want the ability to integrate your new wireless system with other technologies (Electrical Signatures, Oil Analysis, temperatures, control systems data, etc). such that you have a more holistic view of the equipment.  You will also enjoy the ability for your new software to integrate with your CMMS, such that you have a single pane of glass that includes work requests and work history.  

    A sensor alone is just the beginning of your journey....

    Let me know if I can help, - Preston



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    Preston Johnson
    Predictive Maintenance Systems Consultant
    Austin TX
    preston.todd.johnson@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 06-28-2024 04:35 PM

    Steven,

    I know exactly how you feel.  I was in your shoes making the same decision about 5 years ago.  At the time I was the Sr. Maintenance Manager for Mosaic Fertilizer, and we deployed wireless monitoring in 6 facilities which included (if I recall correctly) around 20,000 sensors.  It absolutely can be overwhelming.  I ended up going with Allied Reliability.  They already had years and years of data, so they were not using our data to learn from.  That's one thing you have to be careful is to ensure that you own your own data instead of the provider owning it.  Other providers are building out their own asset library with your data.  Allied already was in the business of condition monitoring for the last 25 years and already had the information they needed to make proper calls on the assets.  They also helped us determine what network we needed and made recommendations on what sensors to use.  The great thing is that they are sensor agnostic.  Other providers are trying to sell you their sensors, which really limits your options.  Allied Reliability worked with our IT, Automation Team, Maintenance leadership, and Maintenance technicians to ensure a smooth transition.

     

    Now to be totally transparent.  I retired last year and Allied asked me to be an Executive Consultant for them, which I accepted.  But prior to that I was a customer of Allied Reliability over a 20 year period in 5 different positions during my career.  And currently, I don't work directly with the Condition Monitoring Team.  So, I would suggest you reach out to them and give them an opportunity to help you with a smooth transition to on-line CBM.  (website: Maintenance and Reliability Solutions | Allied Reliability)  My work email is mmeyer@alliedreliability.com if you have any further questions or call me at 813-848-8117.

     

    Sincerely,

    Matthew Meyer
    Executive Consultant
    ALLIED RELIABILITY
    Reliability Solutions
    M: +1 813.848.8117
    mmeyer@alliedreliability.com
    www.AlliedReliability.com




    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 07-01-2024 08:52 AM

    Hi Steven, we have been piloting around 6 different companies. I think there are about 200 wireless vibration companies. From what we have learned is most of the top companies' sensors close to the same. Resolution is limited by battery life, where you will see a difference is in the AI software part. If you want to see time wave form etc... make sure to ask, some companies give you a red light green light dashboard. For some that is all they want. I don't know what walk around units you use but take a look at Fluke's wireless unit the software and data for the wireless and walk around are in the same software. We use the Emerson 2140 and are considering the switch. We plan to monitor about 1500 assets when it's all said and done, So I fully understand where you are coming from.  I would say for balance of plant the wireless is good. For the super critical assets continues is the way to go still, if not route based with wireless backup may be the next best alternative. I just don't see the wireless technology at the point to replace the data from route-based analyzers yet.   



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    Kevin Peek
    Maintenance Supervisor
    Orange County Sanitation District
    Riverside CA
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 07-02-2024 08:08 AM

    Hey, Steve.  I actually just gave a presentation at our regional SMRP meeting about this very topic.  In this day and age, a continuous condition based monitoring system is imperative.  I manage a group of specialists and technicians who monitor our equipment.  What I have learned over the years when bringing in potential vendors is be careful! I have met many sales reps who have tried to sell us a solution to certain breakdowns we are trying to prevent, but I know before they even start their presentation their technology will not work for my specific application.  My group manages ultrasound, vibration, thermal, oil analysis, grease analysis, chain stretch, and much more.  We know what technologies will work on specific assets.  Here's what I recommend:

    • You need to have a good understanding of the technology to make an informed decision.  You do not need to be certified, but know enough to put the right technology with your asset.
    • The salesman will not understand all of your potential applications.  He may say he does and for most equipment he will, but there are a number of applications where certain technologies just won't work.
    • In regards to asset criticality, the method we use is simple.  I'll use numbers to represent criticality levels with 1 being the highest criticality.  If there is an environmental or human safety risk, then it gets the highest rating of 1. If asset loss will result in considerable downtime, then it gets rated at 2.  In our case, anything with a criticality below 2 is not considered for monitoring unless it can reduce PM or route man-hours.
    • Your view on routes is still very valid.  No matter what technology we bring into the plant, my technicians will always have a thermal route to complete.  This keeps them walking through the plant to look for any other type of issues that are not being continuously monitored.

    You said you were looking into wireless vibration.  Just keep these few things in mind when trying to decide:

    1. Vibration is great, but it can't be applied to everything.  If the asset is "stop and go", your data stream can be severely impacted.  The rule of thumb is the asset has to run for 10 seconds under load to develop a proper time waveform analysis.  Some companies may be able to shave some time off of that 10 seconds.
    2. Most wireless sensors require batteries.  That may or may not be a big deal for your specific applications.  Most companies set their vibration sample as high as they can to save battery life.  If you equipment is not continuously running, this may be a problem.

    We have around 3600 assets with anywhere from 1 to 10 sensors per asset.  We use zero wireless sensors.  We do utilize wireless bridges as long as we can get 24V to our modules.

    I hope this helps.



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    Phillip Amacker
    Engineering Mgr
    Nissan North America
    Smyrna TN
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 07-02-2024 09:22 AM

    Hi Steve,

    I work at yet another one of the many vendors in the wireless vibration space, Schaeffler and our OPTIME Ecosystem.  It is amazing to me how many companies are out there with some sort of solution.  Lot of good options.  Every week, seems like I find another new one I have yet to hear about.  I believe this fact has slowed the ramp up of this type of technology in the field.  Everyone wants to see the technology on their assets so it becomes real to them, despite a plethora of success stories.  The technical specs such as measurement range, collection frequency, battery life, sensor range, ratings, design criteria, ...etc. all go in to the equation but the Reliability experience and financial health and stability of the company is also a major component as clearly the market cannot handle the 150 or so competitors over the long term.  Also, is wireless vibration the only product they have in their portfolio to promote?  Then each sale becomes more critical to their continued existence.   Lot of options out there and a lot of success with documented ROI too.  Take a look around and pick a system that fits your requirements supported by a reputable vendor.  



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    Frank Mignano
    Mgr Condition Monitoring Americas
    Schaeffler Group, USA Inc.
    Fort Mill SC
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 07-02-2024 12:05 PM

    Hi Steve,

    I think Preston Johson covered some key points, just my 2 cents.

    I've spent quite a bit of time as a contractor evaluating various wireless sensors and leading some deployments for vibration and other technologies (electrical, oil etc.).

    1. Use first principles to define the sensor's technical capabilities (FMs, Steady State vs. transient, speed, design, technology i.e. other than vibration)
    2. Software capability (actual analysis functionality, reporting, etc.)
    3. Integration (data extraction and connectors with your exisiting Asset health monitoring tools)
    4. Network (sensor transmission protocol and architecture, gateway connectivity, etc.)
    5. Sensor design (haz area, IP rating, battery life... may not be as important as you think depending on time resolution) 

    Other notes: 

    • You're not replacing a protection system - ref. point 2 in defining the failure modes you are trying to identify... these are usually steady-state FMs, hence why 1 sec or even 1 hr data is mostly overkill. Similarly with daily waveforms.. if you need to monitor something closely there is always freedom to vary time resolution on an ad-hoc basis.
    • Consider your maintenance plan for your new wireless asset... 
    • For variable speed/high criticality - consider semi-wireless or sensors with magnetic flux capabilities...
    • Vendors with a wider range of sensor types maybe your best bet if you are looking to expand past just vibration.

    Reach out if you need a hand.



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    Giann Leandri
    Reliability Engineer - Digital Solutions
    Wood
    Houston TX
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    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 07-03-2024 07:44 AM

    Thank you for the great wisdom and recommendations!



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    Steven Pittman
    Sr. Principal Maintenance and Reliability Engineer
    Arkema Inc
    Bristol PA
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Wireless Vibration Program

    Posted 07-16-2024 02:02 PM

    Good Afternoon

     

    We are currently using Asset Watch for 24/7 temperature and vibration monitoring in the public sector of Water and Sewer and is working well for us. We have saved 250k in capitol cost and have increased our PdM process. Well worth the investment for rotating equipment.

     

    Thank you

     

    Scott

     

    Scott Furman | Maintenance Reliability Coordinator
    City of Tulsa Water and Sewer Department

    175 E. 2nd Street Suite 1300, Tulsa, OK 74103

    M: 623-326-9406

    O: 918-596-7446

    E: sfurman@cityoftulsa.org
    www.cityoftulsa.org

     

    "Stay away from negative people, they have a problem for every solution" Albert Einstein

     

    City of Tulsa logo 2023

     




    Original Message