All Member Open Forum

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
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Hi Derek,

Whatever platform you choose, you need to ensure it can manage your Defect Elimination process effectively and efficiently. So my recommendation would be to first map out your DE process and then define your requirements and select a system. I typically recommend with a (simple) spreadsheet so you can get started quickly, mature your process, be clear on what are must-haves from the tool and what would be nice-to-haves. From there see if you have a tool already in use that can do most of what you need.

Also, keep in mind that in a hazardous industry like O&G many if not most defects will need to go through a MOC process and a CMMS is not always set up to do this. And to ensure your defects do not all get stuck in your MOC process (and completely bog that down) you might want to develop a MOC-lite proces if you don't already something have that. Drop me an email and I can share some more.

------------------------------
Erik Hupje
http://www.roadtoreliability.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikhupje/
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-07-2022 12:42 PM
From: Derek Brown
Subject: Defect Elimination programme

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
------------------------------

A CMMS is good at documenting work done to a particular asset, but I don't know if there are any that are suited to documenting a defect elimination process. As a casual user, I'm just not familiar enough with any of them to know if that will work. And that right there, in my mind, is a good reason to use something else. While a power user might be able to develop a CMMS-based process, it won't be very accessible to the rest of the the people in your plant who you need involvement and buy-in from. You may end up with investigations, decision processes, reports, pictures, presentations, spreadsheets, etc. that you want to share with Ops, Management, and craftspeople, Basing everything on something like a web page or SharePoint would make it accessible to all of them. Any defects, repairs, and improvements to specific assets would still be captured in the CMMS via the work order process, so you would still have those details in the asset record.  Just my thoughts & opinions - I'm also curious about what others have to say.

------------------------------
Dale Nicholson, PE, CMRP, CRL
Reliability Engineer
Evonik Corp
Lafayette IN
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-07-2022 12:42 PM
From: Derek Brown
Subject: Defect Elimination programme

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
------------------------------

Glad to see that Defect Elimination is still alive and well (or re-energizing) at Grangemouth!  Good recommendations from Erik and Dale.  Most of the organizations that we work with find it a bit cumbersome to use the CMMS system to manage their DE projects, opting instead to use something less complicated such as a spreadsheet or database on a Sharepoint. Because many DE projects are small in scope, it's important to make sure that it doesn't take more effort to document the project than it does to get it done.

One of our clients came up with a very clever, effective hybrid system.  All work orders related to a DE project include the letters DJFI (acronym for Don't Just Fix It) at the beginning of the short description.  This works well since that letter combination is highly unlikely to be used for anything else.   They are then able to pull data from the CMMS for all DJFI work orders and use that information to update their spreadsheet DE tracking system.  If you're interested in learning more about their system, drop me an email at MRLedet@mfg-game.com and I will put you in touch with them.

------------------------------
Michelle Ledet Henley
Principal - TMG Frontline Solutions, LLC
The Manufacturing Game
mrledet@mfg-game.com
www.linkedin.com/in/michelleledethenley
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-07-2022 12:42 PM
From: Derek Brown
Subject: Defect Elimination programme

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 9/8/2022 10:30:00 AM
From: Michelle Ledet Henley
Subject: RE: Defect Elimination programme

Glad to see that Defect Elimination is still alive and well (or re-energizing) at Grangemouth!  Good recommendations from Erik and Dale.  Most of the organizations that we work with find it a bit cumbersome to use the CMMS system to manage their DE projects, opting instead to use something less complicated such as a spreadsheet or database on a Sharepoint. Because many DE projects are small in scope, it's important to make sure that it doesn't take more effort to document the project than it does to get it done.

One of our clients came up with a very clever, effective hybrid system.  All work orders related to a DE project include the letters DJFI (acronym for Don't Just Fix It) at the beginning of the short description.  This works well since that letter combination is highly unlikely to be used for anything else.   They are then able to pull data from the CMMS for all DJFI work orders and use that information to update their spreadsheet DE tracking system.  If you're interested in learning more about their system, drop me an email at MRLedet@mfg-game.com and I will put you in touch with them.

------------------------------
Michelle Ledet Henley
Principal - TMG Frontline Solutions, LLC
The Manufacturing Game
mrledet@mfg-game.com
www.linkedin.com/in/michelleledethenley
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-07-2022 12:42 PM
From: Derek Brown
Subject: Defect Elimination programme

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 9/9/2022 7:51:00 AM
From: Richard Lamb
Subject: RE: Defect Elimination programme

Do this with Michelle Henley's idea to use the acronym DJFI (Don't Just Fix It) at the beginning of the short description for work orders of interest.

From the CMMS you can pull a table of all work orders that occurred during a period of interest. Then, export to Excel and filter the job description column upon the acronym and now you have a comprehensive table of all orders of interest.

Next build a "super table" of all related information from the CMMS and other sources with relevant data. Export the tables from the CMMS and then pull them into MS Access or another software such as Tableau and join them together on common columns as a super table.

You will find yourself creating additional columns as you recognize a need for your DE project. Finally, use Access or Tableau to conduct analysis for DE.

You will also find that you will wish create tables such as for status, findings and conclusions. Thence, in Access, you join them to your super table upon common columns such as work order number. You work with subtables joined in a super table rather than a single Excel spreadsheet so that you can go in any direction you desire or discover to make.

Using CMMS data, I have explained in depth (chapter in a book) how to do these types of things with Access . I showed how to do it with Access because everyone has access to the software if their firm uses Microsoft office. What is explained for Access transfers to Tableau.

Additionally, once you learn to work the problem you will immediately find yourself able to work all sorts of problems that have always before been out of reach.

Richard G. Lamb, PE, CPA
rchrd.lamb@gmail.com, analytics4strategy.com

Original Message:
Sent: 9/8/2022 10:30:00 AM
From: Michelle Ledet Henley
Subject: RE: Defect Elimination programme

Glad to see that Defect Elimination is still alive and well (or re-energizing) at Grangemouth!  Good recommendations from Erik and Dale.  Most of the organizations that we work with find it a bit cumbersome to use the CMMS system to manage their DE projects, opting instead to use something less complicated such as a spreadsheet or database on a Sharepoint. Because many DE projects are small in scope, it's important to make sure that it doesn't take more effort to document the project than it does to get it done.

One of our clients came up with a very clever, effective hybrid system.  All work orders related to a DE project include the letters DJFI (acronym for Don't Just Fix It) at the beginning of the short description.  This works well since that letter combination is highly unlikely to be used for anything else.   They are then able to pull data from the CMMS for all DJFI work orders and use that information to update their spreadsheet DE tracking system.  If you're interested in learning more about their system, drop me an email at MRLedet@mfg-game.com and I will put you in touch with them.

------------------------------
Michelle Ledet Henley
Principal - TMG Frontline Solutions, LLC
The Manufacturing Game
mrledet@mfg-game.com
www.linkedin.com/in/michelleledethenley
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-07-2022 12:42 PM
From: Derek Brown
Subject: Defect Elimination programme

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
------------------------------

I've seen it done a number of ways. 

Some TPM models have hanging tags in the field then lists and eventually a WO to execute the repair.  There are pros and cons to this.  Many like the visual nature of hanging tags, etc but eventually if corrective work is to be done to correct the defect then the CMMS will be employed.  Maybe tagging is a way to filter some out and  communicate to operators.

Personally, I think it is wise to use your CMMS.  While not all defects require a WO, most typically will.  The CMMS is where we manage WOs so we already have a system hopefully that is mature and able to manage what we call a defect.  Those defects that are not maintenance executed could be managed outside a CMMS but could also be managed inside the CMMS as well.  A defect handling system will have to be merged at some point with the same resources executing CMMS work so why not use the same system and priority setting?

The other benefit to using the CMMS is the defects can be catagorized as to type or failure mode and some reporting could be done with all other CMMS data related to asset health.

I've never understood why defect elimination was ever presented as a separate process from normal maintenance process flow.

------------------------------
Randy Riddell, CMRP, PSAP, CLS
Reliability Manager
Essity
Cherokee AL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-07-2022 12:42 PM
From: Derek Brown
Subject: Defect Elimination programme

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
------------------------------

Derek,

Based on my experience I think that Erik, of the responses so far, is closest to the path I would choose.  For any system to work it must have a definition that is clear to upper management, to middle management and to the all important folks who will be doing the reporting and responsible for any actions required for "defect elimination".  Defects that impact a business are not all physical asset issues.  Many are process and people issues.  Unlike work orders, many "defects" require a certain level of investigation / evaluation and documentation of the findings.  That leads to a plan to correct the defect.  Often the plan may include work described and documented by a work order.  Sometimes it will be a procedure or process update, subject to MOC requirements as others have noted. 

Defect Elimination comes closer to what is sometimes referred to as a Corrective Action program or process.  There are software systems designed for that process.  How "involved" and how heavily enforced the process is seems to vary by industry.  Oil & Gas and nuclear power tend to have tightly controlled corrective action programs.  Other industries may be able to work with and benefit from a less rigorous, but still well defined, process.  In the end, being clear about what is inside the envelope of that process will be the critical first step. 


------------------------------
Roger Shaw
APM Consultant
Salem CT
Roger_Shaw@comcast.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-07-2022 12:42 PM
From: Derek Brown
Subject: Defect Elimination programme

All,

I am keen to get your feedback, I have read and asked other professionals on the subject of defect elimination and where defects should be recorded and managed, some say all defects should be managed from the CMMS, however, other claim they thought it better on another platform, i.e. designated software/spreadsheet etc.

Thoughts?

------------------------------
Derek Brown
Grangemouth
------------------------------